Curse

mortalis doleo · Jul 22, 2006, 12:23 AM // 00:23

IWAY has been around for so long I cant remmember a time when it wasn't around.
It's a build that is simple to use and is guaranteed to earn you a few fame points from the inexperienced groups at the start (and sometimes from the experienced).
players resort to IWAY for a few reasons:
1. the strong teams require a rank 3 or more to enter, and for players only beggining their HoH experience, IWAY is the only place to turn.
2. IWAY is hassle free and not complicated. thre is no need for TS/Vent.
3. 2/3 teams that one sees forming are IWAY (the rest being Rspike or necro spike or some FotM). To avoid hours of searching for a suitable team, a player might just prefer to enter an IWAY team...

these are the main reasons (not counting the fact that IWAY is fun for some people).

my suggestion is simple, and will probably eliminate a large amount of IWAY teams (if not them all).
I dont want skills to be nerfed and i don't want a complete HoH make-over.

because most players IWAY for quick and easy fame, and teams look for high amounts of fame from players, lets go a step backwards and make teams look for something else in players. lets keep fame as it is, but make it less valuable.

lets make a second fame system, that IWAY players wil have a hard time gaining. lets make a second fame system, when you only gain "new fame" by winning at the actual hall of heroes. a second win in a row gets you two fame and so on...

IWAY rarely gets to the HoH without jumping, and when they do, it's because they are not average noobs. still, they don't stay there for long.

with this new fame system, players will be able to evaluate others through both amount of time invested in HA (fame), and in actual skill (new fame).
a rank 9 player with no new fame will still have an easy time getting into groups, but his goal won't be getting more fame, it will be reaching rank 1 in the new fame system.

in another side, teams won't be able to look for extremely high new rank players, since not that many are able to consistantly win in the HoH (i'm rank 3 and have yet to win the HoH, and have only been able to reach it a few times).

I could go on, but I think i'm starting to repeat myself, so i'll finish by saying that this idea doesn't hurt players who have invested themselves into playing HA (be it iWAY or anything else). It both helps players evaluate each other better, and will eliminate the IWAY build almost completely!

I hope you agree with me. if you do, please post here, and ANET might actually see it and be inspired to help repair the HoH.

Evilsod · Jul 22, 2006, 12:36 AM // 00:36

What in gods name are you on about? Leave the sodding fame system alone. If IWAY lose so much (hey maybe ANet will eventually pull there finger out and sort OoA out), then they have no reason to play it.

One fame system to rule them all, blah blah and in the darkness bind them.

The only problem i have with the current 1 is how we jumped to Scarred Earth and recieved 1 fame for beating 2 teams over 10-15minutes.

God Apprentice · Jul 22, 2006, 12:45 AM // 00:45

Please no more IWAY threads. Close it please, I'm tired of seeing threads like this eventually turn into a flame war. IE: Famous Guilds And People In HA turned into an IWAY flame at the end :/

mortalis doleo · Jul 22, 2006, 12:46 AM // 00:46

IWAY isn't losing, it's a strong build against the teams that are inexperienced, and it rarely reaches the HoH.
i think you can agree with me on that.
IWAY will still be here even after skill changes are made, since it will still be strong enough to gain some fame before dying.

if we put this second fame system, IWAY won't be able to get the new fame. there will be less of an incentive to play IWAY and there will be less IWAY.

the current fame system shouldn't be left alone, since it doesn't show a player's skill, but how long he has been playing iWAY.

mortalis doleo · Jul 22, 2006, 12:47 AM // 00:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by God Apprentice

Please no more IWAY threads. Close it please, I'm tired of seeing threads like this eventually turn into a flame war. IE: Famous Guilds And People In HA turned into an IWAY flame at the end :/

this isnt an IWAY rant, its a suggestion.
if you already had the time to sit down and reply to the thread, at least say what you think of the idea...

fiery · Jul 22, 2006, 03:17 AM // 03:17

Iway wins, Iway loses, just more Iways than any other build. If only HOH wins for fame, I would think that would kill the interest in PVP players hoping to get their tiger soon only to find out about a only HOH win for fame.

mortalis doleo · Jul 22, 2006, 10:11 AM // 10:11

you people arent reading the full post.
the fame system stays the same, but there is another fame system to go along with it.
you gain fame normally, through wins, but you only gain "new fame" from HoH wins.

you'll still have your tiger, but you'll also be aiming at getting the new deer...

Brutal · Jul 22, 2006, 10:31 AM // 10:31

Off topic a little I'm sure I might get flamed for it but, hey pfft. I've been wondering for some time now, who actually came up with the IWAY build originally? I'm sure some people hate that person(s) but you gotta respect them for creating perhaps the most used build in GW history? lol

As for the idea, it might work but I doubt very much that it would eradicate IWAY at all. It's just another title to aim for such as the many new(ish) titles you can gain from PvE and arenas.

mortalis doleo · Jul 22, 2006, 11:28 AM // 11:28

if teams started looking for new fame instead of the old fame, IWAY won't be useful for fame farming...
people will use it less...

Flopjack · Jul 22, 2006, 12:54 PM // 12:54

I think IWAY should be left alone, but I do have a problem with people thinking Rank = your skill or your experience. (I'm not even sure this is quite on topic, but this thread reminded me of it.) Just because you have Rank 3, doesn't mean you earned it by yourself. People all the time show off their Rank to get into groups, when chances are, they just happen to be in a group(s) which won a lot, and they played a simple Warrior build or ran some kind of Warder build. I know some people actually earned it, and other don't have rank because they are new. It's when people are rejected froma group (namely me) because I don't have enough Rank? Oh no, I can't make a tiger glow... I am able to run just about ANYthing people want me too. 1. it's not very hard anyways, 2. I have just about 75% or more of EVERY skill, upgrade and Rune unlocked.

JR · Jul 22, 2006, 04:28 PM // 16:28

Lose fame for losses.

God Apprentice · Jul 22, 2006, 05:49 PM // 17:49

Creating another ranking system based on winning Halls wouldn't be a good idea. The average Joe player would probably have a harder time acquiring fame for the new ranks, while established guilds that frequently do Halls ([CC], [LuNa] etc) wouldn't.

lyra_song · Jul 22, 2006, 05:57 PM // 17:57

What HA really needs a ELO system.

Undivine · Jul 22, 2006, 06:02 PM // 18:02

I think adding another tier of fame is getting a bit much. The system is already obtuse as it is. As a non-PvPer, I couldn't tell you what the difference between Rank and Fame is. Now we'll have Rank, Fame, and New Fame. That's just getting silly. If we're going to have all those ambiguous words mean something, why not just call the whole thing "Rank" and make a separate rank for each arena; so you have RA Rank and HA Rank and Guild Rank, etc.

If all you want to do is reduce the use of IWAY, just nerf the damn thing so it doesn't affect pets. Seems kind of silly that a warrior would get so passionate about avenging their friend's animal which they just picked up from the wilderness yesterday.

Helll is for Heroes · Jul 22, 2006, 06:09 PM // 18:09

IWAY isnt a problem anymore, its been diluted so heavily.

the problem is now people saying how powerful IWAY is while completely ignoring much more powerful builds such as eoebomb/smiteball/dual smite/starburst-spike

B Ephekt · Jul 22, 2006, 07:27 PM // 19:27

This is a stupid idea because it will only reward holding builds, and still won't be an indication of a player's skill. The fame system is fine how it is, leave it alone and stop complaining.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helll is for Heroes

the problem is now people saying how powerful IWAY is while completely ignoring much more powerful builds such as eoebomb...

Edge bombs are "powerful?" I'm sorry but if you don't see that one coming you deserve to lose.

mortalis doleo · Jul 22, 2006, 11:19 PM // 23:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by B Ephekt

This is a stupid idea because it will only reward holding builds, and still won't be an indication of a player's skill. The fame system is fine how it is, leave it alone and stop complaining.

Edge bombs are "powerful?" I'm sorry but if you don't see that one coming you deserve to lose.

it will make builds concentrate not on purely killing the other team, but players will think of builds that can reach and hold the HoH.
i think holding builds should be more common than IWAY, because those builds are actually designed to win HA, while IWAY is designed to kill a couple of teams before reaching a good one.

B Ephekt · Jul 23, 2006, 01:27 AM // 01:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by mortalis doleo

it will make builds concentrate not on purely killing the other team, but players will think of builds that can reach and hold the HoH.
i think holding builds should be more common than IWAY, because those builds are actually designed to win HA, while IWAY is designed to kill a couple of teams before reaching a good one.

Yeah, so instead of running IWAY everyone will just run blood spike. I fail to see how that's any different really - you're trading one gimmicky build for another. IWAY isn't even really a problem, rank was meaningless well before IWAY was around. You can't have a point-based system reflect player skill unless points are deducted for losses.

Not to mention that your "new rank" system just creates another hurdle for players looking to get into HA. Your suggestion is a short sighted and poorly thought out, sorry.

God Apprentice · Jul 23, 2006, 02:05 AM // 02:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by mortalis doleo

it will make builds concentrate not on purely killing the other team, but players will think of builds that can reach and hold the HoH.
i think holding builds should be more common than IWAY, because those builds are actually designed to win HA, while IWAY is designed to kill a couple of teams before reaching a good one.

This unfortunately limit fame to those already established guilds and people(as i said already) who regularly hold Halls. For those who join pugs of any kind they will have a harder time gaining any fame with that new "rank tier"

Remember ANet stresses balance and unfortunately this idea would cause an unbalance in your "New rank" system

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

What HA really needs a ELO system.

Btw Lyra what's this ELO system you speak of? When I see ELO I think Electric Light Orchestra lol(it's a band if you don't know)

Alfrond · Jul 23, 2006, 03:09 AM // 03:09

I think the OP has been attacked a bit harshly for his idea. While I disagree that IWAY really needs to be gotten rid of, I sympathize with the idea that HA needs a different system that would show true skill. I've always had a feeling that HA didn't really go the way the creators intended and Mortalis's idea is an original fix. Its not perfect, but it would seem to at least be a bit better than what we have right now.